SPC093 [HS] Day Four of Days Not Mattering

it's my happy place.

2

I always say that when I

die, I hope I go to Oshkosh.

3

'Cause this is heaven to me,

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Bill: All right.

5

what is it?

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Wednesday night?

7

No, Thursday night at Oshkosh.

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We're sitting around Camp Scholer, and-

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Kent: It's day four of

days not mattering anymore.

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Bill: That's right.

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Day four of days not mattering.

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And, we're just- kicking around some

things that we've seen, so let's talk.

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This is Kent we've got here, by the way.

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So let's talk about some things that we've

seen, and let's start with annoyances.

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Shall we?

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Kent: Sure.

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Always best to get those out of

the way first- Yeah … right?

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Bill: Then we'll talk about some other

things that are pretty cool, but-

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Kent: And, you know, we know a lot

of people put a lot of work into this

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show, so of course, th- this fits

into the category of, uh, it's better

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to be a smart ass than a dumb ass.

22

That's right.

23

We're, we're just gonna sit here and,

and be smart-assed about a few things.

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Bill: But I know, I know you're a little

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incensed with Cessna right now.

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Kent: Well, it's, it's Textron, really.

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Textron, yeah.

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Cessna is just a- That's

right … a part of it, but-

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Bill: That's right

30

… Kent: Textron bought Pipistrel

a few years ago, you know, to

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make themselves look environme-

environmentally friendly, I think.

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And Pipistrel has one of the coolest

designs of aircraft I have seen ever.

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it really takes all the best things of two

of my favorite aircraft, one of which is

34

my Mooney Ovation, and the other of which

is the Diamond Star that I used to fly in

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the flying club, and puts them together.

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And you've got this airplane that's just

sexy, and it looks like it's really big

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and comfortable inside, and it's actually

a little faster and more efficient than

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a Mooney, which is an impressive feat.

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But-

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Well, you know, they've been…

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They started building them at the factory,

but they're not certified, and so for

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the last couple of years, they have been

selling them to people who will take

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this deal, and that is that they have

to be, instead of a normal airplane,

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they have to be experimental exhibition.

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Bill: Yep.

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Kent: And that's because it's not a home

built, it's a factory-built airplane.

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So you can't be experimental amateur

built, as if it were an RV or something

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like that, and really, it doesn't fit

any of those experimental categories.

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And so you essentially have to agree

to take it to a couple air shows a year

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and show it, so that it's experimental

exhibition- There's also a f-

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and that makes it legal

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Bill: There's also a few limitations.

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Uh, for, for example, a home

built, automatically, there's

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agreements in place, where you can

automatically fly those to Canada

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and The Bahamas, for example.

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And when it's exhibition, when it's

experimental exhibition, you have to

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get individual, agreements set up-

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Kent: Yeah

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Bill: uh, for your particular- airplane.

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Um

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Kent: And if the FAA wants to, they can

put limits on what you can do with it.

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and it's just- You know- … not a deal

I think a whole lot of people want to,

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uh, to do, but everyone was kind of

thinking, "Okay, so, you know, there's

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this new certification thing coming up.

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We all know it's coming."

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And so I think, you know, there have

been several manufacturers- Like

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Mosaic that you're talking about.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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There have been…

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We didn't know what its name

was- Yes … at first, but-

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Yes … we now know it as Mosaic.

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And, you know, everybody kind of felt

like, some of these manufacturers are

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just kind of sitting on some things

waiting for that to come out to avoid

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the cost of a full Part 23 certification.

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So I came here this week all

excited because I was thinking,

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"All right, this is it.

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Mosaic took effect.

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Pipistrel's going to announce that

they're finally going to have the,

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Panthera certified under Mosaic And so-

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Bill: Which it qualifies for

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… Kent: yeah.

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And then the other day, the, I

even got a text from, uh, from

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EAA, you know, "Come to the…"

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You know, wherever it was.

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Textron booth, yeah.

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Right.

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And, and, uh, you know, for a big

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And I'm like, "All

right, yay, this is it."

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And what do we get?

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Yet another two-seat trainer to

go with the other 37 two-seat

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trainers Pipistrel already makes.

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I mean, seriously, they…

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I, I, I don't wanna throw too

much shade their way because they

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do make really good airplanes.

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Uh, they've done some impressive things

with some of these two-seaters they make.

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Uh, in fact, when they first were

talking about the Panthera, announcing

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it as a future product, they were

saying that they were gonna try and

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get 200 knots on 200 horsepower.

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And I went, "Okay, there's no way."

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And then they came out with

the Viris, and it goes 147

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knots on three gallons an hour.

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And I went, "Whoa."

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"Okay.

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These guys seem to be able to

bend physics a little bit."

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you know, they had an incredible designer.

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Uh, Tina Tomasovich was his name.

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I talked to him here several years ago.

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And, you know, he's the guy behind,

uh, all of the NASA Green Challenge

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awards that they won for some of

their gliders and stuff like that.

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And, clearly a brilliant aerodynamicist.

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And so I went, "Okay, wow, this thing

is maybe going to be able to do that."

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okay, it didn't quite get there,

but, you know, from what I've

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heard, even running it a little

easy, it'll do, like, 185 at 65%.

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Uh, and that's on a 260 horse engine.

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So even compared to my Mooney,

it's a little less horsepower

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and a little more speed.

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Bill: Yeah, pretty efficient.

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Kent: And, you know, given that

Mooney has been the kings of that

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for forever, I mean, it's really

impressive to beat them at that game.

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Bill: So no Panthera under Mosaic,

just another two-seat trainer.

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Yeah.

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Which, like you said,

they already had several.

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Kent: Several.

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Bill: Yep.

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Kent: I did go over there and, uh, vent

a little bit, and they said, "You know,

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things are moving, but of course we have

no announcements to make and no timeframe-

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as to when we might make them."

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Bill: Yeah.

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Kent: So come on, guys, get

with the program, you know?

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That- Honestly, I, I think that is one of

the best aircraft designs I've ever seen.

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And

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Bill: so- Yeah, it's a,

it's a sexy airplane … a-

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Kent: and you know what?

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It- I know that single engine stuff is not

the thing that Textron really focuses on.

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They sell an awful lot of Citation jets.

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They sell an awful lot of King Airs.

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They're making a ton of money that way.

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It's not like another single

is going to appreciably affect

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their revenue or their profit.

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But come on, guys, you know, look

at the money Cirrus is making.

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I think they could take a big chunk

of that away if they did it right.

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Bill: Yep.

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Well, we'll see what happens.

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Kent: Someday.

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Bill: Someday.

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All right.

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Well-

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I got one because, uh, I'm unexpectedly

staying in Scholer this year.

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Wasn't expecting it, but, On the,

on a positive note, the location

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of our campsite is incredible.

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very close to the show.

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It's really, really good.

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So I'm using bathrooms I've

never used before, and showers

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I've never used before.

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Lo and behold, I get in there for the,

my first shower on Monday, and I notice

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it's set up a little bit different

than the showers I've always used here.

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One, there's no bathrooms in the shower,

and there's none even close to it.

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So you have to do those

two things separately.

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But then , then I notice that the hooks

for your towel and your clean clothes

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or whatever you need to put on the

hooks, are on the inside of the showers.

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They've usually been on the- Yeah … ends

of the dividers or in a sec- s- separated,

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shower curtain area or something.

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But yeah, so we're having to do a

little dance to try and keep the

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clothes dry, the towel dry while you're

showering, trying to figure that out.

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So that was a little different.

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Kent: Yeah.

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And I, I kinda noticed the same thing

in the, the newer shower building

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that's got the, the private showers

on the outside of it, that there

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is no curtain in there anymore.

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There was one hook in the one

that we used- … and that was it.

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And so, uh, I was thinking that, you

know, I think maybe they took out some

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of the creature comforts that those

showers used to have to try and get

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people to hurry up a little bit more.

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Yeah.

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Bill: Well-

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' Kent: Cause there was still a line.

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Gil- I mean, those are the nicest

showers on the grounds, uh,

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except for the, the trailers.

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It, word to the wise, the

trailers are the nicest.

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Those, those trailers

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Bill: are the best.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I was looking forward to the

trailers for the North 40, but

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we ended up not staying there.

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Kent: Yeah.

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Well, and you have to be

parked in the right areas.

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Bill: Yeah, the far side.

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Um- The n- the north side

of, the east-west runway is

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where you wanna be, right?

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Kent: Right.

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Up by the Hilton.

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Bill: Yep.

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Kent: and of course, the people who have

been parking in vintage forever, they

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were the first ones to get the trailers.

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Oh, yeah.

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And so, you know, they've known

about this for a long time, but-

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Bill: Oh, that reminds me,

getting off track a little bit.

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I couldn't remember today, what w-

w- uh, what qualifies as vintage?

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Is it 30 years?

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Kent: No, it's not…

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it used to be that the, uh, the

year they used as the cutoff moved

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forward a year every second year.

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Bill: Hmm.

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Kent: And then I think right now it's

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Bill: Oh, okay.

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Kent: And I think it's because

we've gotten to the point where

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that year is getting awfully

close to the bulk of the GA

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Bill: fleet.

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Exactly.

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That's what I started to think.

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I was like, "If it's 30 years,

that's, like, almost the whole fleet."

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Kent: Yes.

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you know, I- On my, on my computer

I have a whole lot of production

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data from GAMA, the General

Aviation Manufacturers Association.

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Mm.

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And I look at it now and then.

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But I, I found some older data from

them, and the number of airplanes

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that was being produced in the '70s

was just absolutely- Astronomical

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insane.

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Yeah.

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and '79 was, like, the last year of it.

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Yeah.

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And it was the best.

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of thousands of GA airplanes.

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And literally I don't think we've

built that many in all the years since-

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Bill: Yeah, that's probably true

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… Kent: combined.

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Bill: I-

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Kent: You know, it's-

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Bill: I was thinking, if, a lot of

times they consider cars, classic

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cars 25 years or, old or older, and

Trey and I got to thinking, "Hey, that

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means the first year of, Cirrus are now

vintage," if they were using 25 years.

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Kent: Wow.

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No, not so much.

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Yeah, it's, I- I call my airplane

a baby because it's a '97.

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Oh,

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Bill: yeah.

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Kent: And for the GA

fleet, that is a baby.

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Bill: Yep.

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Kent: you know, obviously Cirrus'

and Diamonds and stuff are newer than

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that, but there's not a whole lot of

airplanes that are, that are newer than

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that, So yeah, all, all that production

was back in the '70s, and, uh…

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But yeah, like I said, I think the,

uh, the number for vintage has been

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Bill: Yeah, that makes sense.

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That makes sense that, that

you have to customize that.

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Otherwise, we'll end up with the whole

fleet over there, here pretty soon.

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Kent: Well, I'm glad they quit

moving that number, because

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otherwise, I'd be vintage by now.

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Bill: Yeah.

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That would give you some

good parking, though.

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Kent: Yeah, that's true.

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Bill: Yeah.

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Well, you know, the other big news

is, uh, we got to see the first

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of the two night shows last night.

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Kent: Yep.

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What- Always spectacular

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… Bill: what'd you think?

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Kent: it was…

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The, the show itself was amazing, as- As

per usual … we have grown to expect.

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Bill: Yeah.

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It kinda ruins r- regular

fireworks shows for you.

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Kent: Yeah.

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and it's interesting, 'cause

there are places that are trying

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to do the drone shows now, too.

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Oh,

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Bill: yeah.

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Yep.

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Kent: And nobody really likes

them, from what I've seen.

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Everybody complains.

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you know, Milwaukee tried to do drones

instead of fireworks last year, and

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everyone was like, "That was just super

dumb and I don't ever wanna see it again."

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Now, when you come to Oshkosh, they

don't just do drones, because damn

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it, this show is not about drones.

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That's right.

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It's about real planes with real pilots.

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However, those drones

can do some cool stuff.

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Bill: Really cool stuff.

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Kent: And- But, of course, it has to

be combined with some other things.

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Bill: Yeah.

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Kent: So-

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Bill: Keep, keep in mind that here,

we have drones with airplanes.

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Kent: Yeah.

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And you know, the…

287

When I first started coming to

Oshkosh, there was no night show.

288

The, the- Yeah … night air show- Yeah.

289

That's relatively recent … the,

the first night air show I saw

290

was the one at Sun 'n Fun, uh,

and that was 13 years ago now.

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I don't know exactly when they started

doing that at Oshkosh, but it was- It

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Bill: had

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Kent: to be about a decade ago

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very shortly after that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

297

So it was, yeah, probably 11 or 12 years

ago, so we're talking, uh, you know,

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year they did the night show at Oshkosh.

299

And that was really cool at the beginning.

300

w- we had never really seen airplanes

doing those things at night- Yeah

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and we had never really seen airplanes

shooting fireworks off of them.

302

But now, it's like, every year they

kinda have to outdo themselves.

303

And I feel like since the

pandemic, that has accelerated.

304

Bill: It's really

305

Kent: crazy.

306

And I think it started because, I heard

that whoever did the pyro before the

307

pandemic was, I guess there were two

different groups that kind of took over,

308

and they were kind of always competing

with each other to outdo each other.

309

And out of that, you know, we

used to have the wall of fire

310

at the Night Air Show, right?

311

And that was kind of the

highlight at the end.

312

Mm-hmm.

313

Let's blow up a bunch of gasoline and

make a big wall of fire, and hey, it's

314

really cool, and then everybody goes away.

315

and then they kinda kept adding onto that.

316

can't remember for sure- I think it

317

nuke, which if you've seen it- Oh, yeah

318

you know why we call it that.

319

Yeah.

320

It looks- It's a

321

Bob: mushroom cloud

322

… Kent: it is a mushroom cloud of fire.

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Bill: Yep.

324

Kent: And it is awesome.

325

And then of course, you know, it's,

you've got this big mushroom cloud

326

of fire going through the, the

atmosphere, and they start shooting

327

fireworks up through it and everything.

328

And lasers.

329

And y- yes.

330

Well, lasers were added- And

that's the thing- … a couple

331

years later … is like now-

332

Bill: Yeah

333

… Kent: just in the last few years we,

we got the nuke, and then the year

334

after that we got the dual nuke, and

now we have five things going on.

335

Yeah.

336

We have the laser light

show, the drone show.

337

There's still one airplane- Yep

338

from the Night Air Show that

continues to fly- Fly through

339

it all … through all of this.

340

Yep.

341

Bill: And

342

Kent: that- Shooting

fireworks off his wings.

343

Yep.

344

Plus you have the

fireworks from the ground.

345

What am I missing?

346

Yeah, that's about it.

347

I can't even remember what

348

Bill: the- The, the l- the lasers I think

you got, and, uh, the mushroom clouds,

349

and then the explosions on the side.

350

Kent: Lasers, drones, airplanes

with fireworks, regular fireworks.

351

And still the

352

Bill: wall of fire.

353

Kent: And, yes, and the pyro.

354

Yep.

355

So yeah, you get all of the above now

at the same time, and it's freaking

356

spectacular, and you will never see

another show like it anywhere else-

357

I don't think so … I don't think.

358

You know,

359

Bob: Go ahead … let me tell

you that Sun N Fun this year

360

was an absolute joy to watch.

361

It was incredible.

362

it was a leapfrog of, of

Oshkosh's show last year, and

363

then, threw down the gauntlet.

364

Oshkosh, they had to come

back and make it even bigger.

365

And we had a two-ton great time

down there, I'll tell you what.

366

Sun N Fun underrated.

367

Under,

368

uh- Appreciated … underappreciated.

369

Yeah, it's, it's, it's incredible.

370

and, uh, the laser show, the

night air show, the combination

371

of drones, fireworks, lasers.

372

It's all in…

373

A- and to the music, right?

374

It's just, it's the kind of

vibe you're trying to create.

375

It's different, but I love it.

376

Bill: Mm.

377

Kent: Now, of course, we do have

a few smart-ass remarks to make

378

about this whole thing, too.

379

Bill: Of course.

380

Kent: Starting with, you know, we

went through all of the night airshow

381

performers, and then we waited and we

waited- … and we waited, and one of the

382

announcers came out and said, "Oh, we're

just running through the last few tests."

383

Like, did you guys not have

this on your schedule already?

384

Did you maybe not spend your whole

day, like, thinking about this?

385

Why are we sitting here waiting,

like, 10 minutes to test stuff that

386

you should have had ready already?

387

Bill: They-

388

Kent: And, you know-

389

Bill: They had a required update

on their Windows computer.

390

Kent: Well, right, and, you know, after

a couple of years ago, I really worked

391

hard practicing my Sweet Caroline- … and

then they didn't even play it during

392

the, you know, the pause there.

393

Oh, yeah.

394

So, I mean- Right … come on, guys.

395

Bill: Yeah, Trey and I were sitting,

close to where the Air Boss does his

396

thing, and so the person in charge of

the drone show, I believe it was the

397

drone show, was standing up there.

398

And we could hear him on

his radio doing a countdown.

399

He started from two minutes,

and then a minute and a half,

400

and he kept coming down.

401

And what was the term, Kent?

402

You knew it.

403

Hack.

404

Hack, right?

405

Kent: Like a time hack.

406

Bill: Yeah, a time hack.

407

He was like, "Two minutes to

hack," and then kept counting down.

408

And then he was, "45 seconds to hack.

409

30 seconds to hack."

410

And you could hear the excitement

in his voice increasing.

411

He's like, "Is everybody ready?

412

Check in.

413

15 seconds to hack.

414

10, nine, eight…"

415

He's counting down, and we're, you

know, there, we're only a, a few

416

people that can hear him, and we're

like, "Oh, this is getting exciting.

417

What's about to happen?"

418

And when it g- gets to zero,

and he gets, "One, zero, hack"

419

And we're looking around

like, "Nothing's happening."

420

It was a full, like, I don't know, two,

three minutes later before anything

421

even started happening, and it was the

American flag being pulled up by the-

422

Kent: Oh, yes.

423

Okay.

424

And let's talk about that for a minute,

because it was like, after this,

425

like, 10-minute wait where they're

building up to everything- … then

426

there's literally these two drones-

427

Bill: Big

428

Kent: drones

429

as slow- Big drones … as

I've ever seen drones move-

430

Bill: Yeah

431

… Kent: lift up this…

432

And it wasn't even, like,

a big American flag- Right,

433

right … like a Perkins-sized one.

434

W- w- w- It was just, a flag.

435

W- A basic American flag.

436

Bill: Well, and the cool, the,

437

Kent: the- And it lifted it up

in front of everybody and it was

438

like, that is the least spectacular

thing I think I've ever seen.

439

Well,

440

Bill: later on, the drones made an

American flag, which was way better.

441

Kent: Yes.

442

Bill: Yeah.

443

That was pretty funny.

444

I mean, it was as, it was as

spectacular as ever, but i- there was

445

that giant pause, and we're hearing

the countdown and we're like, "What?

446

W- Nothing's happening."

447

Kent: Yeah.

448

And you know, there was a, there was

a time there where my son got cold

449

and I actually walked back to our

campsite to get him a sweatshirt.

450

Bill: You probably didn't miss anything.

451

Kent: I don't think I missed anything.

452

And the…

453

I saw a lot of people leaving.

454

Bill: Oh,

455

Kent: wow.

456

And I was like, "Oh, you know, the end

of this is gonna be pretty spectacular."

457

And it, and it was.

458

But I can see how people were

just like, "Eh, whatever.

459

I'm not gonna wait.

460

I'm just gonna go back to

my campsite or something."

461

Bill: Yeah.

462

Yeah, it was spectacular.

463

Great job.

464

Bob: If anyone

465

Kent: was leaving, Dad, the only thing

it tells me is that there are some people

466

who cannot be impressed because- Yeah.

467

Well, they were leaving- … They

were leaving at the part that

468

was not impressive whatsoever,

though, That's my point.

469

Bob: Some idea of what's

coming and that's not enough

470

Bill: No patience, that's the problem.

471

Yeah.

472

Kent: Of course, then there was the,

the other thing that, that I must

473

make sarcastic remarks about was,

okay, we finally get to the point

474

where, things started happening.

475

The laser lights came on and all that.

476

The music came on.

477

And all right, everybody, get

ready for your YouTube feeds to be

478

filled with 63,278 nearly identical

bad videos of the fireworks show.

479

Because I swear the entire crowd

simultaneously stood up, whipped out

480

their phones, and started recording it.

481

Sit down and enjoy the show.

482

If for no other reason than, you know,

my nine-year-old couldn't see, 'cause

483

he's not as tall as the rest of you

are, I ended up having him, uh- Get on

484

your shoulders … like, stand on my…

485

nah.

486

Oh.

487

He would break me at this point, but-

no, I had him stand on my chair and, um-

488

Oh, yeah … and then I stood up so I

could see, you know, and I'm 6'4", so.

489

So yeah, there's gonna be lots and

lots of bad cellphone videos of it

490

out there, in spite of the fact that

there were at least a few professional

491

crews who were recording it.

492

Yes.

493

So you'll be able to see a good recording.

494

Bill: Speaking

495

Kent: of which- You don't need to

make your own recording … did

496

Bill: you see that…

497

Have you seen that contraption running

around, that video and audio contraption

498

that they've got, that run- they had

it running up and down the flight line?

499

Did you see that?

500

I…

501

Kent: No, I haven't seen that.

502

It's like this- I did, I did see a

picture- … go-kart thing … of the

503

longest, I would describe it as the

longest selfie stick I've ever seen.

504

I'm pretty sure it was long enough

they should have issued a TFR for it.

505

Bill: I have seen a couple of those that

people were using with their 360 cameras.

506

I've seen some really long selfie poles.

507

But the, EAA has hired or

created this contraption.

508

I don't even remember if I got

509

Kent: a- If, if, if you refer to it as a

contraption, it's definitely made by EAA.

510

Bill: Yeah, yeah.

511

So it's this cart, and there were

several people riding around on it,

512

electrically propelled, and it was

like this square go-kart thing with

513

cameras and a microphone and arms and

mixers, and it's probably about 10

514

feet long and six feet wide, and it was

rolling around out there in the grass.

515

And

516

then-

517

Kent: Okay, this is starting to sound like

something that somebody built just so they

518

could sneak a vehicle through the gate.

519

Bill: No.

520

Then I saw…

521

And then I saw it today.

522

The first time I've seen it

was last night at the airshow.

523

They were driving around, and

I'm sit- We're just waiting in

524

between the two airshows, and I'm

going, "What the heck is that?"

525

And as it drives by, I'm going,

"That's for cameras and audio.

526

What in the heck is this thing?"

527

And then today, during the day, I

saw it driving around on the grounds.

528

Huh.

529

So yeah.

530

I need to get a picture of it.

531

I don't think I did yet.

532

that was pretty funny.

533

All right.

534

What else?

535

Have you seen anything else?

536

worth talking about?

537

Kent: I have seen a lot of things.

538

I'm not sure which ones are

really worth talking about.

539

Uh, you know, this is, this is the

show where we go to, figure out

540

how much money we're going to be

spending on all of the things that

541

we need for our airplanes, right?

542

Bill: Yes.

543

Kent: Um, and then we try and

get discounts and, uh, 'cause

544

we're just cheap pilots, but, um-

545

Bill: Trey and I decided, among

several other grand ideas, but we

546

decided, "You know, it's probably a

really good idea if we each build a

547

Sonic, a SubSonex, uh, personal jet,

and we'll start flying in local air

548

shows as, uh, a father-son team."

549

That's probably a good idea.

550

Kent: The problem, the problem with

those, those jets, though, is…

551

I- I mean, I haven't checked

the specs in a while, so I'll…

552

You know, just to throw that out there.

553

But I don't think they can go very far.

554

Bill: No, no, no.

555

Kent: Like, their-

They- … endurance is so bad.

556

They hold- Just it- they're tiny.

557

Bill: Yeah.

558

They hold

559

Kent: 40- But turbines are…

560

Turbines just suck-

Thirsty … a lot of fuel.

561

Yeah, they're thirsty.

562

And I think you can only fly them for,

like, 20 minutes or something like that.

563

Bill: Nope.

564

Nope, it's better than that.

565

Kent: Okay.

566

Bill: Um, so they hold…

567

Oh, no, this plan is in motion.

568

We're doing this.

569

No, we're not.

570

But, um, we looked at all the specs

and everything, 'cause there was a

571

lot of time between those air shows.

572

and it holds 40 gallons.

573

Kent: Okay.

574

Bill: And it burns about 25 an hour.

575

So with reserves, you

can go about an hour.

576

But-

577

Kent: At what speed?

578

Bill: But when you're going that hour,

you can go, well, y- not counting the

579

time to climb up there, but at 17,500

feet, because this is a VFR machine.

580

At 17,500 feet, you can go,

like, 240 miles an hour.

581

Not knots, 240 miles an hour.

582

So-

583

Kent: Okay.

584

Huh

585

… Bill: so it would be like the

Nanchang, that Nanchangs we saw

586

at the, gassing up at the airport.

587

Okay.

588

It would be legs like

that, hour-long legs to-

589

Kent: Yeah

590

… Bill: get anywhere.

591

Kent: Which makes it a

really, really slow airplane.

592

Bill: Yes.

593

But that's not what it's for.

594

It was for us to go out and

have fun and fly aerobatics.

595

Kent: Which you can do in many airplanes-

… that are better suited for that.

596

Bob: Doesn't sound like that,

smell like that, do the cool jet

597

Bill: things.

598

Yeah.

599

You're, you- you're missing the point.

600

You're missing the point.

601

It wouldn't be our only airplanes.

602

I mean, come on.

603

Yeah.

604

Kent: Yeah.

605

I mean, I

606

Bill: feel like- We're talking

about our fantasies here, Kent.

607

No, that thing looks like a blast.

608

Kent: Yeah?

609

Bill: You've gotta admit, that thing,

that would be a blast to fly, and that's

610

what it was all about for us, is- So-

611

some- something to go rip around the

sky and have fun with for an hour.

612

Kent: So what can it do

in terms of aerobatics?

613

Is it, like, any negative-

Yeah … G kind of stuff or-

614

Bill: If you…

615

Yeah.

616

If you, uh…

617

I- I- I might get these

specs off, but y- you can…

618

It has an aerobatic category, a utility

category, and a normal category.

619

Kent: Okay.

620

Bill: And the aerobatic category,

it had to be only 100 pounds less

621

than your regular gross, and the CG

had to be within a certain limit.

622

So you're gonna have to carry

a little bit less fuel and, you

623

know, a couple other things.

624

Um-

625

Kent: So am I going to be able to even fly

it in the normal category is the question.

626

Bill: Well, normal category has a useful

load of, uh, of, I wanna save 500 pounds.

627

And s- And then- And so in the-

628

… Kent: 40 gallons of jet A.

629

Bill: Well, you can't put 40 in it.

630

Kent: Okay.

631

Bill: But yeah.

632

And then I think it was, 'cause I think

total gross for normal category is 1,000

633

pounds, and it's a 500-pound airplane

634

So

635

Utility category was something else.

636

I didn't look at that one.

637

And then aerobatic category

was 900 pounds, and the CG was

638

slightly different envelope.

639

And in the u- in the, uh, aerobatic

category, it was plus six, minus three.

640

Kent: Okay.

641

Which I think is the minimum

for aerobatic category.

642

Bill: Yeah, which would allow

you to do some fun stuff rolls

643

Kent: Yeah

644

Bill: I mean, you're not gonna be

yanking it around like an Extra, an Edge

645

540, but, or a GameBird or something

like that, but, you know, it's a jet I

646

think those

647

Bob: numbers were even worse

648

Kent: Look at me.

649

I fly a whiny, stinky airplane

650

Bob: than

651

what we had on the, uh, turbulence

in the AirVenture Cup race this

652

Kent: year.

653

Oh, my God.

654

It was a rough one.

655

All right.

656

So- That was a rough day … we need, we

need to, we need to hand Bob a mic here

657

and have him talk about the, uh, w- what I

think has now been called the SmokeVenture

658

Cup race- That's right … right?

659

Because- SmokeVenture Cup … it didn't

start when it was supposed to start-

660

Beautiful bit of terrain … because, uh,

well, w- you know, uh, Canada covered the

661

entire state of Wisconsin in a nice thick

blanket- Uh … of smoke … Wisconsin,

662

Bob: Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio.

663

It was pretty, it was pretty thick.

664

It could, up all the way

to the, uh, Atlantic Coast.

665

yeah, so the AirVenture Cup race,

in order for us to run that race,

666

the FAA waivers that we get require

us to get six miles of visibility.

667

And all day Sunday, when we were scheduled

to run the race originally, it was-

668

Bill: Three

669

… Bob: three, four, fi- Less … we

have five, oh, on one, but the entire

670

400-mile course needs to be six miles-

671

before we launch for the whole course.

672

Well, we didn't get that on Sunday.

673

We're all waiting around.

674

You know, it was interesting.

675

We, we all got out to the

airport, all super excited.

676

"Let's go.

677

It's r- time to race," you know.

678

We all kinda knew we weren't gonna fly

right away, but it's a great camaraderie.

679

and by the afternoon, after a couple

of pots of coffee each, and we're

680

all just like, "Oh, man, are we gonna

have to do this thing this afternoon?"

681

Because we're just all

having a great time now.

682

And now we, now we just wanna, like, relax

together, and maybe we'll fly tomorrow.

683

Kent: It's getting to be that

time of day where we switch

684

from coffee to beer, right?

685

Bob: Uh, it was getting close.

686

It was getting close.

687

But we were all still ready to go

until the final call was made, early

688

in the afternoon, I think 3:00.

689

And then, uh, we finally launched

on Monday, not as early as we could,

690

Monday, and we, the, the race staff,

691

uh, was able to shorten the course.

692

so we get all the waivers

for the entire, course.

693

It's, uh, seven separate segments, but

we can run just part of it, so we just

694

took the first segment as a sprint.

695

And we raced, Wausau to Shawano,

Wisconsin at, about, uh, 10 minutes

696

to half an hour from the first

fastest to slowest airplanes.

697

So it was a very short race, but, the

wind was, a pretty strong crosswind,

698

and there's a little bit of terrain up

there, so you're flying at 1,000 AGL,

699

and- as fast as you're willing to fly

it, as fast as your airplane will go.

700

And yeah, I saw on the G meter, uh, 3.9

701

positive and about one

and a half negative.

702

And, you know, for this race we were

just empty out the airplanes, everything,

703

strap it all down, we're gonna go fly.

704

I run a water tank in the back of

the airplane to spray the oil cooler

705

and the intake and, uh, it's not

necessarily a positive G system, so

706

there's water like kinda, you know,

loose around the back of the airplane.

707

But, you know, whatever, it's

all distilled water, it's fine.

708

but we had a great time.

709

most of the racers actually ran the

race and, We, uh, we got it done, and-

710

All right … it's definitely something

that, uh, I would encourage people to

711

take a look at for any kind of airplane.

712

Kent: Well now, uh, since we

started at the end of the story,

713

let's, uh, let's work a little

ways back toward the beginning.

714

Bob: Sure.

715

Kent: Tell us a little bit about

the AirVenture Cup race, and, what

716

it is, history, how it's normally

run when we- Sure … don't

717

have smoke all over the place.

718

Sure.

719

Bob: Um, let me, uh, and I

apologize for, uh, you know, if

720

I misrepresent anything here.

721

that, EAA was trying to find a way to

722

tie the 100-year anniversary of the

flight at Kitty Hawk back to Oshkosh.

723

So they, they said, a young intern there,

uh, Eric White, said, "Why don't we,

724

why don't we have a race of experimental

airplanes from Kitty Hawk to Oshkosh?

725

That'd be cool."

726

And the idea, got

circulated for a little bit.

727

It reached EAA Risk Management-

… which very promptly said, "No."

728

A big no.

729

this is a Tom Poberezny story.

730

and Tom came and said, "No, wait a second.

731

This is a really good idea.

732

Make this happen.

733

Figure out how to make this happen."

734

and I really gotta tip my hat to

that idea that, you know, we c-

735

we don't just always say no to

things that are a little bit risky.

736

We're like, let's do something

important, celebratory, camaraderie.

737

Let's have some fun.

738

Let's do this thing."

739

Kent: As someone who's been working

in aviation safety for several years

740

now, you, when you take safety to the

extreme that departments that are named

741

things like Risk Management like to do-

742

Bob: Yep

743

… Kent: it just means you don't fly.

744

And EAA is all about flying.

745

Bob: Absolutely.

746

Kent: So you know what?

747

Bob: Okay,

748

Kent: so- Let's, all you gotta do is-

749

Bob: I- is, is-

750

… Kent: find what the

751

Bob: risks

752

Kent: are- … do the right things.

753

Exactly … mitigate them, and go fly.

754

Bob: Yeah.

755

And so, you know, we, and, and all of the

race participants are treated really the

756

same as all of the airshow performers.

757

We, have our airplanes, uh, inspected.

758

They go over all of our paperwork,

all of our airplane paperwork, all

759

of our insurance, all of our, uh,

pilot records to, uh, uh, as relevant

760

to sh- to ensure that we're legal

to fly, and it's like going through

761

a ramp check just to participate.

762

the risk management is an important

element, and there's a lot of

763

things that are done to, to mitigate

that or, you know, to lower risk,

764

including the visibility waivers

that I mentioned, or the visibility

765

requirements that I mentioned earlier.

766

well, let's come back to a little

bit what the race is, and it started

767

as this cross-country race, that

was really a little bit too long to

768

accommodate a weekend of- variable

weather across the, the mountains

769

between Kitty Hawk and Oshkosh.

770

So that was done there a couple of years.

771

Okay, there were a couple of

772

that was the race that was run.

773

It was a successful lead-in to doing that.

774

And then, a little bit shorter race,

Dayton to Oshkosh, that was done.

775

And then, a couple of other host cities

decided, you know, the, the race staff

776

figured out other venues and, and formats.

777

uh, Mitchell, South Dakota to Oshkosh

or, Mount Vernon to Wausau, Wisconsin.

778

Uh, for some years initially

the finish line was at Oshkosh.

779

And just to add one more thing to a

busy Sunday of arrivals- Yes … why

780

don't we have a bunch of race

airplanes come screaming in with no

781

interest in following the Fisk arrival

and, uh, cross the finish line?

782

Well, that obviously didn't,

uh, didn't take very well.

783

So, the races- Hey, we

784

Kent: almost have, like, one

wingspan's worth of free airspace here.

785

Let's cram something into

786

Bob: it.

787

Let's-- Yeah, exactly.

788

Uh, and nobody knows exactly

when they're gonna be there.

789

And when they start coming they're

gonna just, come streaming across.

790

So the, uh- The race has been moved

to its excellent host city of Wausau,

791

Wisconsin, and I say that because they've

just really been gracious to the city.

792

there's an official, uh,

city support of the event.

793

There's an organization up there

called Learn Build Fly that-

794

Kent: Yes

795

Bob: does a wonderful job with, uh,

youth in that community, and they

796

have a lot of community support.

797

They've got, two big hangars up there.

798

They've got instructors.

799

They've got tools and equipment and

CAD stations and 3D printers and

800

plasma cutters and CNC machines,

and they're doing really cool

801

projects, learning, industrial tools

to learn, build, and fly airplanes.

802

They built a, uh, Whitman Legacy.

803

There's a bunch of other projects that

have been, uh, donated that they'll

804

continue to work on, and it's really

just a, a neat, uh, hotbed of, of,

805

educational experience for these kids.

806

Kent: Yeah, and anyone who hasn't heard

of this yet should, uh, should Google that

807

and go check it out- Yeah, Learn Build Fly

808

because it is really, really cool what

they're doing up there, and they're,

809

they're getting kids involved with,

uh, you know, the building and the

810

maintaining and flying, and it's just

so cool, and it really makes me wish

811

I lived a little closer- Yeah … so

that my kids could take part in that.

812

Bob: Or, or because if you needed a

project where, you know, what I'd really

813

like to have this, uh, little part

I sketched up for my airplane laser

814

cut out, and I'll just, uh, you know-

815

we'll have the kids do it, but

I'm gonna enjoy this, uh, thing

816

that I need for my airplane.

817

a- and they, and they'll love it.

818

They do that kind of thing, uh, on

a regular basis to, uh, teach these

819

kids how to use this stuff, and it's

more than just how to use the tools.

820

They do a lot of organizational training

and development with these kids, too, like

821

how to organize a project and a business,

and, uh, they've, they've really had some

822

great graduates out of their program.

823

Kent: Yeah, it's really neat stuff.

824

So you start in Wausau,

and, uh, and then what?

825

Bob: Yeah, okay.

826

So the race course, uh, from Wausau is,

almost loop, and it's a, a trek around

827

the, uh, upper, uh, half of Wisconsin up

into the UP of Michigan in the side of

828

Lake Superior up at Sawyer, or Marquette,

Michigan, and then, uh, coming back

829

southwest toward Tomahawk Land O'Lakes,

the finish line at Merrill, Wisconsin,

830

and then we recover at, uh, Wausau, and

the local EA chapter there, chapter 640,

831

also a great supporter of the event.

832

They, uh, throw a nice lunch

for us and, uh, really support

833

the race activities, Yeah.

834

there are guys who say like, "I'm not here

for the race and I'm here for the food."

835

They really are, uh, a

wonderful group up there.

836

Cool … but a little

bit more about the race.

837

Uh, it's, uh, several turn points.

838

We have a, uh, a few waivers that are

required to run this sort of thing,

839

including, uh, speed below 10,000

feet, uh, as long as- Whoa, whoa

840

… Kent: we stay subsonic.

841

Whoa.

842

Are, is somebody going faster

than 250 indicated under 10,000?

843

Bob: The, uh, course, the speed record

for this event is 438 miles an hour.

844

Not on this course, but, uh- Wow

845

in one of the Mitchell races,

I think that was- By what

846

Kent: type?

847

Bob: Uh, I think that was the,

uh, Garrett powered, uh, turbine

848

Legend, if I remember right.

849

But, uh, a shout out to Andy

Findlay flying the Super Legacy,

850

doing pretty close to 400 miles

an hour, uh, on a regular,

851

crested 400 miles an hour at Reno.

852

those are the kind of speeds that

are, you know, very short term

853

endeavor out there with, a little

higher risk profile than flying over

854

the trees of Northern Wisconsin.

855

But, the fastest speed this

year in the short race that

856

we ran was 288 miles an hour.

857

So yeah, we get, uh- Cool … we

get a little bit of, uh, support

858

and help and, uh, allowance

from the FAA to run this race.

859

Uh- Nice … so we have 1,000 feet,

minimum, uh, AGL for the race itself.

860

We get, uh, there's a spectator area

at Shawano, the very first turn point.

861

They'll have a couple of

thousand people, food trucks.

862

They make a big deal out of it.

863

It's really cool.

864

For that turn point, we

have a maximum altitude.

865

It's flown right down the runway- Oh, nice

… and the maximum altitude's 500 feet.

866

Nice.

867

It's really a pretty cool

s- uh, spectator event.

868

And, uh, after that, uh,

altitude, your discretion Huh.

869

So, uh-

870

Kent: Cool

871

Bob: fly over all the turn points.

872

You can stop at any turn point.

873

very safety-oriented.

874

something doesn't sound quite right,

maybe the fuel planning doesn't go

875

in exactly as you thought, maybe the

coffee's working a little too fast,

876

and you w- and you need to stop.

877

So you can stop at any turn

point and get off the clock.

878

Huh.

879

Cool.

880

Land, fill up with gas, do what you gotta

do, get back in the air, cross the airport

881

level at 1,000 feet, and get on your way.

882

and you can do that any of the,

uh, any of the turn points.

883

Kent: Nice.

884

Bob: It's really a, a great time, and

I, I, what I would encourage anyone

885

hearing this to say is, to hear is

that any airplane is, a fair contender

886

because we divide the race into classes

such that, if you're racing a 172,

887

you're racing against other 172s.

888

And if you're racing a fast experimental

airplane, it's gonna be an airplane

889

of similar configuration, similar

horsepower, and that makes it interesting.

890

The RVs are very well represented.

891

There's a specific RV classes, whether you

have 320, 360, or the bigger, 390, 540.

892

So we have all those different

classes to keep everybody, uh,

893

in an interesting, fun race.

894

Kent: How many classes are there?

895

Bob: sh- something closer to 20

and then, and I can't say for sure.

896

It does depend on, you

know, who's registered.

897

I think the seaplane class is,

you know, an occasional entrant.

898

Twins are sometimes, you know, depending

on how many are there, there's n- not

899

often a lot of people in those classes,

so they'll kinda tailor that to what

900

you need, to make it fair and right.

901

Kent: And then how many

airplanes are in the race?

902

Bob: Uh, this year there were…

903

I don't know the exact number, but I'll

say it was something pretty close to

904

100, just a little bit less than 100.

905

unfortunately, uh, because of the

delay into Monday, a lot of the

906

participants bailed thinking we might

not get a chance to race at all.

907

Took the, uh, opportunity

to get into Oshkosh.

908

Yeah.

909

And so we only had, uh, 43 racers launch.

910

Everybody finished.

911

Kent: Cool.

912

Well, now that we've, uh, told the

middle of the story, let's go a

913

little back closer to the beginning.

914

Sure.

915

What do you fly in the race?

916

Bob: so my airplane is a Cozy Mark IV.

917

I built it over the course

918

919

Uh, it's an O-360 with a custom fuel

injection system that I built, uh, which

920

has really, been an enabler for the race.

921

Uh, but the Cozy is a canard pusher

style airplane that is a derivative

922

of the Long EZ designed by Burt Rutan.

923

So the c- uh, small wing in

the front, engines in the back.

924

Funny looking airplane.

925

Sounds different when it goes overhead.

926

People ask, which way it

goes, how do you take off?

927

Parks on its nose.

928

Uh, if you've seen an airplane

like that parked out on the

929

flight line, it, it looks like-

I like- … it might be broken.

930

Bill: I like to think they're kneeling.

931

Bob: Kneeling, yeah.

932

Kent: Yeah.

933

Bob: Resting, grazing.

934

Uh-

935

Kent: the funny thing is, the last time

I saw your airplane in flight, I was

936

at a place called Old World Wisconsin,

where they have all kinds of, like,

937

and actors- … who are, uh, doing

938

things like churning butter the way

that they would have done back then.

939

And all of a sudden, here comes Bob in

his Cozy that looks like a- Spaceship

940

futuristic spaceship

flying right overhead.

941

Bob: Perfect.

942

I'll have to note where

that is on the chart.

943

I remember you sending me

a text that you were there.

944

And then- … now, now I'm gonna put

that on the chart and make sure I, uh,

945

let them know that Old World Wisconsin.

946

So the original VariEze that Burt Rutan,

uh, designed and then, you know, first

947

flew is almost exactly as old as I am.

948

Oh, boy, now.

949

950

it's not exactly a brand new thing, but,

uh, something's evolved over the years.

951

Kent: Very cool.

952

And finally, who the heck are you?

953

Bob: Well, uh, what a great

opportunity to, to have upon this.

954

And, uh, my name's Bob Bittner.

955

Uh, I grew up in Appleton, Wisconsin,

just the next town north of, uh,

956

our lovely place here in Oshkosh.

957

it's in the water up here.

958

Uh, building airplanes, flying airplanes,

seeing unusual airplanes, experimental

959

stuff, it's just, just part of the

culture, uh, in this part of the woods.

960

And I've got some family that built,

uh, some airplanes, and it's just,

961

I grew up around aviation, and

so, yeah, I just love doing it.

962

Kent: Very cool.

963

Bob: Thanks.

964

Kent: Well, thanks for joining us, Bob.

965

Bob: Thanks.

966

Pleasure to be invited.

967

Bill: All right.

968

Well, I think that's about it.

969

I think we, um, drained our

collective intelligence, so…

970

Kent: I don't even remember what we

were talking about- … before all

971

Bill: that.

972

That was very interesting.

973

um, yeah, I've always heard of

the cup race, but, never knew all

974

that detail, so thanks for that.

975

Kent: You're welcome.

976

And here we were trying to

be snide, and we, we actually

977

learned some interesting things.

978

Bill: Yeah.

979

Well, it's just another

day here at Oshkosh.

980

Kent: Yeah.

981

I mean, it's, uh, it's a place

where there is a lot to learn.

982

you know, tons of workshops, and forums,

and all that kind of stuff, of course.

983

And, you know, this is my

984

23rd or so Oshkosh.

985

I haven't actually counted them all

up, but every one's different, and

986

every one is what you make of it.

987

Bill: Yep.

988

Kent: but it…

989

You know, it's my happy place.

990

I always say that when I

die, I hope I go to Oshkosh.

991

'Cause this is heaven to me, Just sitting

here in the campground, and, uh, chilling

992

with friends, and talking about airplanes.

993

I mean, doesn't get much better than that.

994

Bill: Amen.

995

That's a good way to end this.

996

Thanks, Kent.