SPC#80 – Back to Part Time

Bill Williams's video recording:

Welcome back to the student pilot cast.

2

Thanks for being here as usual today.

3

We're going to get back together

with Nick Smith from part time pilot,

4

an online ground school platform

that we first talked about over

5

two years ago, back in episode 64.

6

So let's get going on episode 80 of the

student pilot cast back to part time.

7

So like I mentioned before, we spoke to

Nick back in episode 64 about his ground

8

school, but a lot has changed since then.

9

He's added both features as well

as programs to his school, so let's

10

get to the interview pretty quickly.

11

Before we started, though, I want to

mention that we recorded this a couple

12

of months ago when this is released.

13

Since then, I've completed my CFI.

14

I finally got to do my check right

in mid November, but when we spoke,

15

I was still waiting for a date from

a DPE to get to get it scheduled.

16

So we'll talk a bit about that.

17

As usual, please reach out to me

if you have any questions or any

18

suggestions or any feedback of any kind.

19

You can find me via email at

bill at student pilotcast.

20

com or on X using my, the handle or

name there at bill will that's Bravo,

21

India, Lima, Lima, whiskey, India, Lima.

22

I guess I should also mention

our very unused Instagram account

23

too, which is student pilotcast.

24

So that's pretty easy to find.

25

I guess I should start putting content out

there, I guess, on Instagram, but I just

26

haven't done anything really there yet.

27

You can also use the contact

form to get ahold of me.

28

It's on the website.

29

Uh, you can get in

touch with me like that.

30

Any way you do it though, just do it.

31

While I do get behind sometimes, it

might take me a while to reach back out.

32

I do love hearing from you and

I will almost always respond.

33

So I guess we can drop into the

conversation that Nick and I had.

34

So here you go.

35

Bill: all right.

36

Welcome back to another episode

of the student pilot cast.

37

We're so happy to be reprising

our episode that we did with

38

Nick Smith over two years ago.

39

Nick, can you believe it's been that long?

40

Nick Smith: uh, no, that's crazy.

41

Bill: So Nick Smith runs an operation

called part time pilot and, uh, we

42

actually did, uh, here I am in the

middle of our discussion and I forgot

43

to look up what episode number that was.

44

Nick Smith: I was trying to look for

it as well, just before we started.

45

Bill: All right,

46

Nick Smith: Oh, 64

47

Bill: and we

48

Nick Smith: Yeah.

49

Bill: video episode on there,

but I've changed the way

50

we're doing that a little bit.

51

So yeah, so it's episode 64 of the

student pilot cast was when we talked

52

about part time pilot for the first time.

53

So Nick, it's been over two years.

54

new?

55

What's new with part time pilot?

56

Gives

57

Nick Smith: Yeah.

58

Thanks for having me on again.

59

a lot is new.

60

Um, in two years.

61

I can't like, so we have, the big thing

is we have an IFR on my ground school now.

62

Um, that was one of the

things that I think probably.

63

I think I talked to you about starting

to create it at the time we talked last.

64

Um, so that's up and going now.

65

Um, we, uh, we have a mobile app now.

66

Um, so that's been really fun to

build and we have a great, um, app

67

builder who's doing that for us and.

68

It's really cool.

69

It's got, you know, a six B tool,

like a practice test generator

70

where you can pick, uh, you know,

the categories you want to do

71

practice tests and that's all free.

72

But then students of our ground school

that log into that get extra features.

73

Uh, so they'll be able to.

74

Go through the ground school lessons,

listen to our audio lessons, watch

75

the videos, take the quizzes,

and then they'll also be able to

76

download a lot of our bonuses.

77

So that's really cool.

78

We're still working on,

uh, updates right now.

79

Like, uh, it doesn't sync

progress with our online.

80

So that's a big update we're working on.

81

So it's a work in progress, but it's been

really fun to get into the, the app world.

82

Um, Yeah.

83

Bill: to some of that training

on the go, I guess a little

84

bit easier for them to access.

85

Is that kind of what idea is.

86

Nick Smith: So I held back from a lot

of people ask if we had an app and like

87

they wanted an app and our, our course

is already 100 percent mobile friendly.

88

You just, you know, you

just need the internet.

89

So that's why I held back.

90

I was like, I'm not really sure

what the app, uh, would do.

91

But then I started speaking to an app

developer and they were saying, well,

92

there is, there is possibility that we

could, you know, um, have it all stored,

93

you know, Right when they download the

app, it kind of stores all the information

94

and then eventually, and again, this is

another feature we're working towards,

95

but students could use it offline as well.

96

And then, so when they get back

online, any progress that they had made

97

offline would kind of re sync, uh, with

their course online and everything.

98

So that's kind of what we're

working towards, and that to me

99

is the big bonus of having an app,

right, is having that ability.

100

Let's say you're on an

airplane or whatever,

101

and the Wi Fi.

102

Doesn't work, right?

103

Yeah.

104

Well, like a commercial plane

and, uh, and, uh, so you could

105

do, you know, you could pull

that up and get some studying in.

106

So yeah, basically, like you said, on

the go, and then the offline thing is big

107

because believe it or not, we have a lot

of students that like, I'm, I'm surprised

108

at how many students we have that they're,

they're not always in an area, you know,

109

I live in a city, but they're not always

in an area with internet connection.

110

Um, so yeah,

111

Bill: Interesting.

112

Nick Smith: yeah.

113

Bill: think I

114

also noticed that you guys

added a checkride prep.

115

I don't think you have that two years ago.

116

Nick Smith: Oh, really?

117

Okay.

118

Yeah.

119

Yeah.

120

It's hard to remember, but yeah,

we have a check write prep course.

121

We've added a lot to that.

122

I've kind of built, you know, it's really

about kind of exactly what to expect.

123

So it's like in the same.

124

Step by step.

125

Like, you know, you meet with your DP,

you're going to give them their money

126

because they want their money first.

127

Right.

128

And then they check your log

book and your IACRA and then

129

you go over the plane stuff.

130

So it's like all that step by

step to really just get you

131

feeling confident and comfortable

about what you're going to see.

132

And then we've, since then we've built,

um, we've put in like throughout, we

133

review everything in that same sequence.

134

So, but then we throw in like.

135

In like green text that kind of

stands out in the course, these

136

like situational based questions,

oral questions that you might get.

137

And then the answer that

we think you should give.

138

Um, so we have over like 300 of those

thrown and those are, those are kind

139

of the money things that people really,

really want for a check write prep is to

140

know what they're going to be asked on

the oral and kind of how to, how to figure

141

out what they might be asked, you know,

uh, based off their scenario or whatever.

142

So, yeah.

143

Yeah,

144

Bill: So that's kind of the stuff

that's new, um, for those listeners

145

who haven't had a chance to go

listen to that other episode.

146

How about Nick, you give us

a synopsis on what's new?

147

What part time pilot is and you

know where you're headed with it

148

Nick Smith: yeah, um, absolutely.

149

So part time pilot started after I

went through my private pilot training.

150

And so I have a background in

aerospace engineering, and then

151

I was a flight test engineer.

152

So I was all around airplanes.

153

And so the knowledge was there and

I wanted to get my pilot's license.

154

And when I was going, I was actually

kind of a natural, and I'm not trying

155

to brag, but like, I got through

my flight license pretty quickly.

156

Relatively quickly at the beginning.

157

Um, and then I decided to move from

Seattle to San Diego and then take a

158

couple months off and then I was paying

paycheck to paycheck and then I went

159

to kind of a, I went from a, I didn't

really understand part 61, part one 41.

160

So I switched to part one 41

school, then had all these extra

161

requirements I didn't understand.

162

I essentially made a bunch of mistakes

from my lack of understanding of

163

how the flight training world.

164

worked.

165

Um, and it got really, really frustrating.

166

And I spent, you know, like Six,

seven, 8, 000 more dollars than I

167

really should have if I just had

planned ahead and known these things.

168

So I started like an Instagram based

off trying to educate people about

169

the way the flight training works.

170

And then, um, and then

started looking into.

171

More what it would take to be able

to have an online ground school.

172

And so I, I became a ground instructor.

173

Um, first I do was just basic for, you

know, private sport and recreational.

174

And then now, uh, you know, about

a year ago, I got my IFR rating

175

for ground instructor, so for our

IFR course, and then started just

176

building the, uh, the ground school.

177

So that's kind of how it started,

you know, out of that, uh, wanting

178

to educate people and kind of

save some people some money.

179

Cause I thought if it's that hard for

someone who has the, you know, the, the.

180

Just who's always around planes

and has the, the academic knowledge

181

behind it and all that stuff.

182

Then no wonder so many people are,

are failing and finding it too hard.

183

So that's kind of where it started.

184

And that's kind of why the name part

time pilot came about because I thought,

185

you know, look, there's so many people

out here who they want to make the

186

dream, either a career change, or they

just want to, Achieve the dream of

187

flying, but they don't have just a ton

of money where they can just like stop

188

working or like stop taking care of

the kids and just like focus on that.

189

So we all kind of start off as this

part time pilot where we're, you know,

190

we have a full time, uh, schedule.

191

And then on the side, we're trying to

make this career switch or whatever.

192

And so, um, it was sort of, I wanted

to tailor everything to that person

193

that is trying to do this on a limited.

194

A limited schedule, you know, a busy

schedule, a limited amount of time.

195

So that's why we have, like I was

talking about the mobile app, right?

196

That's exactly in line with kind of

our goals to just, and then we have

197

audio lessons, so you can listen

to ground school stuff on the go,

198

everything we kind of add is kind of

with that in mind to make it easier,

199

uh, and, uh, more efficient for

students to, to learn the content.

200

Bill: interesting and I

just learned something.

201

I didn't know, um, to be a

ground instructor instructor

202

for an instrument rating.

203

I guess there's additional training.

204

Nick Smith: Yeah, so there's just

like kind of a flight instructor.

205

There's different ground

instructor ratings.

206

So it's basic instrument and advanced.

207

Um, advanced is like, now when I, when I

went in for my instrument, the person was

208

like, why didn't you just do the advanced?

209

And then you could, cause advance

is like, you can teach everything.

210

And like, you know, once you've learned

a lot of it, once you've learned

211

kind of like private and IFR, like,

212

Bill: or the fundamentals of

instruction are all the same.

213

It's really

214

Nick Smith: Yeah,

215

Bill: technical content.

216

Nick Smith: right.

217

Exactly.

218

So, um, but I just, I did it piecemeal.

219

So I did the basic one, which allows you

to teach private sport and recreation.

220

And then I did IFR and then,

you know, eventually I'll, I'll

221

probably do advanced as well.

222

And,

223

um,

224

Bill: you

225

do commercial CFI multi stuff like that.

226

Nick Smith: yeah.

227

And even, uh, helicopter as well.

228

Bill: okay.

229

Nick Smith: Yeah.

230

So it's kind of like, yeah,

it's kind of everything.

231

Yeah.

232

Bill: Cool.

233

Nick Smith: At least

that's how I understand it.

234

Bill: All

235

Nick Smith: I haven't looked too

much into the advanced one, but yeah.

236

Bill: Well, I'm gonna I'm

gonna ask the obvious question.

237

Nick Smith: Okay.

238

Bill: time

239

you weren't really ready to do that.

240

Didn't really think that's the

direction you were going to go.

241

But have you reconsidered

maybe becoming a CFI?

242

Nick Smith: Uh, no, I haven't.

243

Yeah.

244

Still just, um,

245

Bill: Focus on the ground instruction.

246

Nick Smith: yeah, yeah.

247

I, yeah, I like teaching

the ground knowledge.

248

Um, and, uh, you know, just a, a time

thing, you know, I can reach more people

249

teaching the ground content than I

can, you know, flying with one person.

250

And then for me, it's just, this

seems a little stressful to fly with.

251

Bill: to kill you every day.

252

Nick Smith: Yeah, exactly.

253

So I don't know.

254

But, uh, I don't knock anyone that does.

255

I mean, we need flight instructors.

256

So thank you for, for doing that.

257

But, uh, I don't think that's for me.

258

Yeah.

259

Bill: I hear you.

260

All right.

261

Well, um, that, and we've talked

about it a little bit, that you added

262

instrument, um, plans to add more.

263

The reason I ask is it seems like

there would be an opportunity.

264

your students who are maybe going

on to advanced ratings, even beyond

265

instrument, uh, to kind of grow with them

or allow them to kind of grow with you.

266

So are you thinking about adding some

of the other, um, the other, not the,

267

the other certificates, um, and helping

your students kind of continue on?

268

Is that something you're planning on?

269

Nick Smith: Yeah, absolutely.

270

Um, whether it's we go the commercial

route before we, or maybe we do

271

rotorcraft, like you talked about, I

kind of go with the commercial route.

272

The flow of what the

people are asking for.

273

And that's why I went IFR.

274

So many people were asking for IFR.

275

I haven't got that many people

asking for commercial, but I know

276

it'll come now that we have IFR,

but I guess it makes sense, right?

277

The, the further you get kind of

the less people that are actually

278

making, making it that far.

279

So eventually, right.

280

I want to have it all.

281

Um, I want to have rotorcraft

and, and commercial.

282

Bill: It's just a matter of, uh,

prioritizing which ones come first, right?

283

Mm hmm.

284

Nick Smith: Right.

285

Exactly.

286

So, um, but yeah, that's

definitely in the works right now.

287

Um, you know, after doing the check write

prep and the IFR and the release and a

288

couple of books, I was like, I wanted to

pump the brakes and just like focus on

289

just like polishing everything up and just

making, um, you know, there's, I always

290

have ideas of like how to make the course

better and I'm always getting feedback.

291

So I'm just taking last few months

and a few more months to just kind

292

of Polish it all up right now.

293

We're redoing our.

294

Audio lessons in the private pilot

course, because when we recorded them

295

since then, our, our lessons have

changed just a little bit, you know,

296

I've gotten better at explaining things.

297

So I've changed that in the

written lesson, but I haven't

298

had the time to update the audio.

299

So I'm going back to update

the audio, make new videos.

300

You know, now, uh, we have

some videos with animation.

301

So trying to get more animation,

just things like that.

302

This is just polishes it

up, makes it even better.

303

So that's kind of what

we're focusing on now.

304

before we just throw

more products at people.

305

Bill: Right, right.

306

No, that's

307

Nick Smith: Yeah.

308

Bill: Yeah,

309

I've noticed as I've been, uh, teaching

and practicing and things like that,

310

that you polish up your presentation for

certain subjects based on, oh, I've got a

311

better story to tell here, or I've got a

312

Nick Smith: Mm-hmm

313

Bill: to use here that gets through

to more students, things like that.

314

That's kind of what you're

running into, right?

315

Nick Smith: Oh, 100%.

316

Like one of the ones that

I've changed many, many times.

317

And you'll have to tell me a little

bit about, about what you're doing

318

now, uh, with the teaching, but

like the, um, the temperature

319

pressure effects on the altimeter.

320

Right.

321

And

322

Bill: yes.

323

Nick Smith: the, reasons why that

happens and, the confusion around that,

324

just as confusing as it is to learn,

it's even more confusing to explain.

325

Uh, so, but I finally like have found

that, I have a good way of explaining it

326

now, but it's taken multiple iterations.

327

You know what I mean?

328

Like, and like you said, analogies.

329

Um, to do that.

330

So, so

331

Bill: don't even

332

Nick Smith: yeah,

333

Bill: remember that being in the private,

but I got my private so long ago.

334

I probably have just forgotten,

but I remember kind of having to

335

relearn that when I was doing my

instrument, or maybe it was my

336

Nick Smith: right.

337

Bill: don't

338

know.

339

I don't ever

340

Nick Smith: And the one then also, maybe

you just learned hide a low lookout below

341

Bill: Maybe I

342

Nick Smith: and that's

343

Bill: the test, but I didn't

learn how to explain it.

344

Nick Smith: Well, and like, that's

kind of a dilemma I have too.

345

It's like, okay, for these private

students, do I want to just

346

have them learn this for now?

347

Or, you know, I know there's going

to be those students that are

348

like, well, why does this happen?

349

And it's like, do we want

to go into the weeds?

350

Cause it is, it is very

weedy that subject.

351

So like, is, so I always kind of

play with that dilemma, um, you

352

know, cause there's so much to learn.

353

Like, do we want to, obviously it's

good to, to learn the more, It's

354

good to learn more, but you know,

you want to look out for their time.

355

Bill: just touched Nick on my probably

my biggest challenge in teaching

356

that I've discovered about myself.

357

It wasn't that big of a shock.

358

I'm a bit of a nerd who likes

to dive into a subject because I

359

want to know everything about it.

360

And so 1 of the big challenges

that I face is not going too

361

deep with us with somebody who.

362

Um, is just learning, you know, and

so it's really kind of, uh, an art be

363

able to get across the right amount of

information that is accurate, correct,

364

but doesn't confuse and doesn't overwhelm

student before they're ready for that.

365

Nick Smith: Yep.

366

Bill: totally know what you're saying.

367

I, I could do a, I could do a ground

on fundamentals of flight would take

368

two and a half hours, you know, but

nobody who's learning first about the

369

fundamentals of, of flight is going

to be able to sit there and take in

370

information for two and a half hours.

371

And it's not something they don't need

all of that detail to get their, um, Get

372

their certificate or pass the written but

if I'm with somebody who's also interested

373

in going deep, that could easily happen,

and so that what you're doing, trying to

374

find that balance is not only difficult,

but really important for the learner

375

and it, what you're doing is hard too,

because when you teach one on one or

376

even one to few, you can sort of gauge.

377

Where people want to go, you have

to do it where, it works well

378

for a large number of people.

379

And so I'm wondering how you, how

you navigate that, because that's

380

totally different than how I would

do it, say, in a one to one scenario.

381

Nick Smith: Yeah.

382

Bill: is it just a lot of feedback

from, by the way, do you call them your

383

customers, your users, your students?

384

What, what do you, what

do you call your users?

385

Are they students?

386

Nick Smith: Students.

387

Yeah.

388

Yeah.

389

Bill: do you

390

have a really like close feedback

loop with your students or how

391

do you sort of navigate that?

392

be interesting to

393

Nick Smith: That's a, that's

an amazing question and only

394

one who kind of understands

this space and teaching it too.

395

So, uh, I've never been asked this before,

but it's such a good question and it's.

396

It's not easy.

397

Um, but I,

398

I'm trying to think of the best way.

399

So one, two, you asked if, if there's a

close feedback loop and yes, absolutely.

400

I told you kind of before that I try

and go with the way of the people.

401

Um, I find that, uh,

402

Having that community, uh, being,

403

Bill: soon then?

404

I'm just kidding.

405

Nick Smith: yeah.

406

Right.

407

so having that, um, that community

feel, and kind of, and that's

408

one other thing we try to do.

409

We try and bridge the gap from like

online to like an in person instruction.

410

So like, what is it

that's great about, yeah.

411

What is it that's great about

the in person instruction?

412

Well, it's being able to reach out

when you have a question and getting

413

that question back quickly and kind

of understanding where you're at.

414

Along kind of like a mentor thing.

415

And that's hard to do with a lot of

people, but that's, that's one of my, I

416

think that if we can do that online, we

will stand out between everybody else.

417

If, and if we have that one feature

where we feel connected to the

418

student, they don't feel like, Oh,

here's a bunch of PDFs and videos.

419

See you later.

420

Right.

421

Good luck.

422

Um, so having that close feedback loop.

423

Is great.

424

And always, uh, like just the

other day I had a student that was

425

really, really thankful for, they

were like, Hey, like, you know, on

426

this video, you talked about you.

427

You know, if you do a certain

amount of hours per day, you can get

428

through ground school in, in a month.

429

And I was wondering like, what lessons

would you recommend I do each day?

430

And I had already had

like this calendar thing.

431

And so it gave me this idea where like,

I'll just put each lesson on there

432

so that they can just check it off.

433

And so I did that real

quick and I sent it to her.

434

She's like, wow, this is so cool.

435

Like you actually listened to me.

436

Yeah.

437

Like you guys have the best ideas.

438

Bill: hmm.

439

Nick Smith: Cause you are

actually going through it.

440

So that close feedback loop, and then

just having different options, I think

441

would be the other way and just trying,

and this is what's hard is trying to.

442

Communicate that.

443

So like, for example, in our lessons,

we have the audio lesson at the top.

444

We have written, you know, visual

aids and like diagrams throughout.

445

And then we'll have a video at the

bottom and then a quiz, but also at

446

the bottom we have a test prep summary.

447

And the reason I added that test prep

summary is like, sometimes there's some

448

students that are just, you know, no

matter how much I try and tell them,

449

it's good to understand the fundamentals

of the concepts and what's behind

450

them and not just rote memorization.

451

No matter how much I say that some

students are just going to do that because

452

they're running out of time or whatever.

453

So I have that option in there for them.

454

Um, but the difficulty of having

all those different options, right?

455

Whether you want to listen

to it, watch the video.

456

Some students and I, I was kind of

like this, that if something's like

457

given to me, I'm like, I have to do it

458

all.

459

And so like,

460

Bill: Yeah.

461

Nick Smith: yeah, exactly.

462

So trying to say like, Hey,

just do what works for you.

463

The quiz at the end is going to tell

you what you need to know pretty much.

464

Right.

465

So take the quiz and if you, you

know, pick which way you want to

466

learn the best and then take the quiz.

467

And if you're lacking there, um, you know,

then look into the, you know, then watch

468

the video maybe, or, uh, then we, one

cool thing that we added since the last

469

time I talked to you about, cause AI.

470

Came about probably since the

last time I talked to you.

471

Right now we have AI.

472

So I, um, and this was a lot harder

to do right when it came out, but I

473

wanted to be at the forefront of this.

474

And so I built like all these

things called like vectors

475

and fed it into chat GPT.

476

And so basically it was like

a prompt and a response.

477

And I took.

478

And I made from every single lesson

prompts and response that students

479

might have and fed that to chat GPT

to like train it on our content.

480

And then, um, so it took so long

and then now open AI, I don't

481

know if you're familiar, but

now you can just upload PDFs.

482

So it's like, wait,

483

Bill: yeah,

484

Nick Smith: so, but on every single

lesson, we have an AI that we've uploaded

485

all our PDFs and all the FAA PDFs too.

486

And so.

487

It has that context and they

can get a quick question.

488

It's not meant to replace us, so

they can still reach out to us.

489

But I guess long story short, just

having all those options and just

490

trying to communicate to them,

like use what works best for you.

491

And, but there are all these

options for you if you need it.

492

So,

493

Bill: I can see, I can see that

being a pretty big challenge

494

Nick Smith: yeah,

495

Bill: strike that balance.

496

So, yeah, I appreciate that.

497

Nick Smith: yeah,

498

Bill: Do you still have

your perfect pass rate?

499

Nick Smith: I don't know.

500

Bill: well, that's

501

Nick Smith: Uh, we've had,

502

Bill: challenge of growth.

503

Yeah,

504

Nick Smith: that I know of

who, um, didn't pass the exam.

505

And then, um, both of them

were like, no, this is on me.

506

I don't want to refund.

507

But I was like, Hey, our policy

is to refund if you don't pass.

508

So I'm happy to refund you.

509

And then they passed the second time.

510

But, um, but yeah, we didn't,

uh, It didn't give, I knew it

511

was going to come, but yeah,

512

Bill: well, good.

513

That just means you're growing.

514

You've got a lot more students

because sometimes people have bad

515

days or they're just not ready.

516

So it happens to everyone.

517

Nick Smith: yeah, absolutely.

518

Yeah.

519

And I was gonna say, so, uh, give me,

why don't you give me a little update

520

since the last, last time we talked?

521

I, I know that like, uh, did you start

IFR training or is that something?

522

Bill: Yeah.

523

Um, I did that just a few months after we.

524

actually.

525

Um, so I did my, I started

my instrument rating.

526

Well, first, first I had to, you

know, get current again and relearn

527

how to fly an actual airplane.

528

Um, start

529

refreshing my book

knowledge, things like that.

530

Because I'd taken quite a while off.

531

Um, but then, and this is, you know, this

is pretty well documented in the podcast,

532

but, um, then back in, uh, January or

533

rating, did that, um, got my commercial.

534

Then I took a few months

off of training and, um, I.

535

I forgot to mention back in that same time

period when I started my IFR training,

536

I left my long time corporate, you know,

technology job started doing some other

537

things and started the training at the

same time and doing all these things.

538

But then I got my commercial

and then I did my CFI.

539

Um, but I, I kind of finished

training for my CFI about four

540

months ago, I've literally

541

Nick Smith: wow.

542

Bill: this

543

whole time to get a check ride and

544

Nick Smith: Oh, no way.

545

Bill: scheduled.

546

Nick Smith: Oh my God.

547

Yeah.

548

That's like, I'm hearing that everywhere.

549

Bill: It's pretty nuts.

550

It's pretty nuts.

551

It's a little frustrating, but

I try not to let it bother me.

552

I'm just excited to, so all of

the, um, training I've been doing

553

has all been sort of in a mock

as my preparation or training.

554

So.

555

I've led a couple of discussions

with private pilots, um, under the

556

supervision of my CFI instructor.

557

You know, since

558

Nick Smith: Yeah.

559

Bill: haven't passed my check right yet.

560

I'm not a CFI.

561

Um, so I've done some of that.

562

I've done some where we get together

with other CFI candidates and

563

we teach each other a subject.

564

So we can kind of go through the lesson

plans, kind of learn how to teach it.

565

Then I've also been doing, um, I've

also been doing the same thing with my,

566

um, I have two, uh, three adult sons,

but two of them are, um, interested

567

in aviation in one way or another.

568

I have one son who's, um, already a

private pilot and he's planning on

569

getting a bunch of his other ratings.

570

And so I've been, um, teaching

him, doing grounds with him on

571

Maneuvers and things like that, and then

572

Nick Smith: Yeah.

573

Yeah.

574

Bill: in the airplane and flying with him.

575

So I always fly right seat now, just

to make sure that I stay in you know,

576

Nick Smith: Yeah.

577

Yeah.

578

Bill: so I've been as a private pilot,

unfortunately, um, when he's, The

579

sole manipulator of the controls.

580

I don't really get to log the

time because I'm not a CFI yet.

581

So that's a

582

Nick Smith: Yeah.

583

Bill: but he gets to log the time.

584

So that's cool for him.

585

but I also have another son who works

in aviation, but he's not a pilot.

586

Um, he's going to become a

mechanic, an airplane mechanic.

587

So he's starting school soon and he's

got a job with with an aviation company,

588

where he does a lot of their groundwork.

589

And, uh, So I've done the same thing

with him where I'll teach him, you know,

590

Um, ground lessons because he does want

to get his private pilot eventually and

591

and then we'll go out and fly.

592

And in that case, I get to

log it because he can't.

593

So,

594

Nick Smith: Right.

595

Nice.

596

So man, are you guys, it sounds

like you guys need to start

597

like a aviation business.

598

You guys got all of it right there.

599

Yeah.

600

Bill: Um, but.

601

But yeah, it's, it's kind of dragging out.

602

I'm, to begin teaching because I've

always thought I would love teaching.

603

I mean, I love teaching in

general and I've taught many other

604

topics and different, you know,

aspects of my career and my life.

605

Um, I've done seminars, I've

done, you know, one to many, I've

606

done one on one teaching and I

really, I really enjoy teaching.

607

I think I'm kind of good at it.

608

so I'm really excited to

take two of my passions,

609

Flying and merge them together, and I

really enjoy it when I've been doing it

610

with my with my sons and when I've been

doing it with the other students of the

611

school, and I'm really excited to get

going on this, and I'm just held up by

612

this technicality that I can't I can't

get, you know, my checkride scheduled.

613

So I'm hoping sometime in November.

614

Cross your fingers.

615

Um, I'm working with 2 or 3 different.

616

DPS to get on their schedule.

617

I still can't get on the schedule.

618

Literally

619

Nick Smith: what area

620

Bill: months.

621

So

622

Nick Smith: where, what

area are you at again?

623

Bill: in the Phoenix Valley.

624

Nick Smith: Okay.

625

Have you looked like to just,

626

Bill: done here.

627

So lots of yeah.

628

Nick Smith: have you looked at like

flying to somewhere with a DP or,

629

Bill: of these still sort of

in the Arizona area would be.

630

Um,

631

Nick Smith: Oh, okay.

632

Bill: that, but, but yeah,

633

Nick Smith: Man, that's crazy.

634

Bill: out, I'm going to have to start

broadening and go to Dallas or San

635

Diego or you know, go somewhere else

where I can find a DPE because it's

636

really getting kind of ridiculous.

637

I'm

638

Nick Smith: Yeah.

639

That's wild.

640

I wonder,

641

Bill: I'm just excited.

642

You know, I'm excited to get started.

643

And.

644

start gaining more and more

experience from the teaching side.

645

And I'm just really looking

forward to doing it.

646

I think I'm going to love it.

647

Nick Smith: Yeah, that's awesome.

648

Good for you.

649

Uh, now do you think that the reason for

the DP shortage is a Shortage of DPS or

650

are there more students that are needing

651

Bill: Yeah, this is good.

652

Nick Smith: DPS?

653

Bill: a lot and I would not call myself

an expert in this, but in the discussions

654

that I've had and been privy to, I

don't think there's a shortage of DPEs.

655

I think it's, it has to

do with a lot of things.

656

One, not all DPEs.

657

are either eligible or

willing to do CFI initial.

658

a very long check ride.

659

Um, it's,

660

Nick Smith: Yeah, that's true.

661

Bill: does take special qualifications

and certain amounts of experience

662

to even be qualified to do it.

663

And so you can take all of the DPEs and

I don't know what the figure on this, but

664

it's possible that only half of them or

even less than that, um, do CFI initial.

665

So

666

Nick Smith: Yeah

667

Bill: part of it is it got, I mean,

it's always been hard throughout my

668

recent training to schedule a DPE,

uh, but it's never been this hard.

669

And part of that, I think is it's

just harder to find who's doing that.

670

And then the people, the

DPEs who are doing that are

671

generally not full time DPEs.

672

In fact, a lot of DPEs

aren't full time DPEs.

673

They, they hold other

jobs in aviation usually.

674

And whether

675

that's they're running a big

flight school or, um, they're.

676

Airline pilots or, you know, any number

of, of things that they're doing,

677

they don't do check rides full time.

678

And so that hurts too.

679

They may only have two slots

a month where they'll do a CFI

680

initial, even the ones who do do it.

681

Um, and then 3rd,

682

I think that, um, we've sort of got a

bubble in the pipeline of, of students,

683

um, or pilots, uh, because most of

the airlines have, have, uh, Either

684

completely stopped or slowed hiring.

685

So maybe there's people that

weren't planning on a CFI and

686

now they're kind of like, well, I

687

Nick Smith: Yeah.

688

Bill: job

689

in the airline.

690

So maybe I'll become a CFI.

691

Um, there, you know, any number of things.

692

And so I think there's.

693

additional training going on because

they're not moving on to jobs in

694

aviation because, you know, we're

just in one of those little bubbles

695

where it's backing up a little bit.

696

Nick Smith: Yeah.

697

Bill: I imagined that and a whole host of

other things, like I said, in my region,

698

because of the weather and because of,

I don't know, for all of the various

699

reasons, Arizona is just a training Mecca.

700

And

701

Nick Smith: Yeah.

702

Bill: have a lot of DPEs around here.

703

But we also have a large,

large number of students or for

704

various ratings and certificates.

705

So I don't think there's

really a shortage.

706

If you look on the the roles, so

to speak, there's a lot of DPEs.

707

But some, some, some of them just

don't work that much as a DP.

708

And then I think some of them probably

don't get that much work because

709

while most are probably incredible.

710

I haven't met most.

711

I think there's also DPS that people

avoid like the plague because they're.

712

They're just not very good.

713

so,

714

I, I think that's an exception.

715

Um, but I don't know, for whatever reason,

it's just been very difficult to get this

716

one scheduled more difficult than the

other ratings and certificates that I did.

717

Nick Smith: Yeah.

718

Yeah.

719

Yeah, that all makes sense to me

Especially your yeah, like you said

720

to see if I yeah That makes sense.

721

But I've even heard it hard for private

722

too lately.

723

So yeah.

724

Bill: a while, but, um, but

it doesn't, it's not 4 months.

725

Nick Smith: Yeah.

726

Yeah.

727

That's,

728

Bill: I mean,

729

Nick Smith: that's true.

730

Yeah.

731

Bill: but anyway, it is what it is.

732

And, uh, we just deal with it and we

go through the process and I'm excited

733

to start teaching more and more.

734

So

735

Nick Smith: Yeah.

736

Yeah.

737

That's awesome.

738

Very cool.

739

Yeah.

740

Thanks for the update.

741

I appreciate that.

742

I think you'd be a good teacher.

743

I haven't heard you teach,

but I think that the way you

744

articulate things at least is good.

745

Yeah.

746

Bill: Yeah.

747

And I

748

Nick Smith: Yeah.

749

Bill: I

750

mean, part of the reason I love teaching

in general is because it always makes

751

me more of an expert in the topic

because you always get questions that

752

you wouldn't have thought of yourself.

753

You.

754

have to be prepared for questions.

755

Um, you have to, you know, you alluded to

before, something kind of, and explaining

756

something are two different skills, two

different things that you have to do.

757

And being able to explain something

To two different types of people.

758

I mean, many different types of people,

but two major categories of people,

759

people who understand it at all.

760

then people who kind of understand it, but

need, you know, that, that second depth of

761

knowledge, or they need somebody to help

them get to where, Oh, they really get it.

762

Not just

763

Nick Smith: Yeah.

764

Yeah.

765

Bill: know, beyond that rote

knowledge really correlating.

766

The information, amazing when that

kind of happens for yourself, but I

767

find it even more amazing when you

facilitate that in somebody else.

768

It's, it's very exciting and

invigorating when you see the

769

synapses created in somebody's mind.

770

I mean, not literally see them,

but you see the correlation

771

happen and they go, Oh, Oh,

772

And it's

773

Nick Smith: Yeah.

774

Bill: and being able to do that requires

a level of knowledge of the topic that

775

you might not get unless you teach it.

776

And one of the reasons I'm

a sucker for knowledge.

777

And when I don't get When I kind of

understand something, but I don't know

778

all the details about it, it bugs me.

779

And so

780

Nick Smith: Yeah.

781

Bill: part

782

of the exciting thing and part of

the reason that, I love teaching is

783

because whatever the subject matter is.

784

I mean, I used to do it back

in college, like with physics

785

courses and stuff like that.

786

I would teach other, I would teach

other fellow students about a

787

really difficult upcoming because I

knew that if I taught it, nail it.

788

And so

789

it's, it's just fun.

790

It's fun to be able to do that.

791

And it's going to make me

way more knowledgeable and

792

comfortable with my own knowledge.

793

Nick Smith: Yeah, exactly.

794

Yeah.

795

It'll make you a better pilot.

796

But yeah, I always tell students

to like the best way to learn and

797

study is to learn it as if you were

having to explain it to somebody

798

else because then you really had,

and I, I use the term, have you heard

799

of like first principles thinking?

800

Yeah.

801

So like I, I always try and break down

the concepts when I'm creating a lesson

802

and I'm like, okay, I, you know, I want

them to actually understand this concept.

803

So like, what are the first principle

kind of fundamental facts that You

804

know, about this concept that they

absolutely need to have and know, um,

805

that'll set the foundation for being

able to, to understand sort of any

806

sort of rote memorization question.

807

If even if they didn't remember it, right.

808

Because it's just because they

understand they can still work it

809

out logically because they understand

those core principles or whatever.

810

So, um, but yeah, and you reminded

me of the, have you seen that

811

curve of like, um, it's like.

812

It's like on the Y axis, it's

like confidence in your knowledge.

813

And then on the X axis, it's like how

much experience learning it you have.

814

And so it's like, starts as a bachelor's

and like, after your bachelor's,

815

your confidence is really high.

816

And then if you get like a master's level,

817

like the more you learn

about something, the,

818

Bill: down.

819

Nick Smith: yeah, the more you like

realize you don't know anything.

820

Bill: Yep.

821

Nick Smith: Yeah.

822

Bill: I've had many personal experiences

about that, um, throughout my life on

823

all kinds of topics and, you know, in my

professional life and aviation, all of it.

824

And, um, I, yeah, that is

very, very real for me.

825

And I have to my fellow CFI candidates

as well as my instructors Um, as I've

826

been going through this process about

this very thing, because I'll just

827

sometimes shake my head and go here.

828

I am a CFI candidate.

829

I've been flying for 15 years off off and

on, but I've been flying for 15 years.

830

And did I not realize what

I just learned right here?

831

Nick Smith: Yeah.

832

Bill: it's like, this seems so basic.

833

I can't think of the example right

now, but it's happened multiple times

834

where I'll just shake my head and go.

835

Okay.

836

I, we know nothing like it takes, it

takes a lot of experience and a long

837

time to start building that confidence

back up because the more you learn

838

about a topic, the more you realize

how much, how little, you know,

839

Nick Smith: Yeah.

840

And it, it humbles you.

841

Bill: the scheme of things

842

Nick Smith: Yeah.

843

It humbles you.

844

Like when I first started like teaching,

making videos and stuff, like I was

845

like, I can't, I have to make sure that

people, you know, that when people watch

846

this, they think that I know absolutely

everything and I'm perfect in this video.

847

And then now I'm to the point where

like, Oh yeah, I could totally be wrong.

848

Like, please tell me

like, let's hear like,

849

Bill: I

850

Nick Smith: I've, I've

851

been wrong many times.

852

Bill: think that probably helps you

connect with the students better, uh,

853

because it's more, it, it, it's, uh,

more familiar to their experiences.

854

Even, even things outside of

aviation, things that they're experts

855

at, they will get that, you know?

856

And so I think, I think it makes

you, think it makes you more human

857

able to connect better and thus.

858

trustworthy and probably helps

you teach more effectively.

859

one of the things that I've been, I've

been, um, blessed with is most of the

860

time to have instructors when I ask

a question or I bring up a topic or

861

you know how it is when aviators

are sitting around, it'll often go

862

to, Hey, what if, or what about,

I've been blessed with instructors

863

that would always go, I don't know.

864

Let's figure it

865

Nick Smith: Yeah.

866

Bill: And,

867

Nick Smith: Yeah, exactly.

868

Yeah.

869

Bill: that, that is way more, I

guess that, that builds a lot more

870

trust than trying to make something

up or, Oh, that's a dumb question.

871

Or, you know, some other way of replying

to hide your ignorance of the topic.

872

Does that make sense?

873

Nick Smith: Oh, 100%.

874

And like, yeah, you make an amazing point.

875

Like if they think when they look at the

syllabus of what all they have to learn

876

and they just get kind of overwhelmed and

then, and then I'm over here acting like,

877

Bill: you

878

Nick Smith: Oh Yeah.

879

It's

880

Bill: Yeah.

881

it's.

882

Nick Smith: It's really easy.

883

Like, what do you, where,

where you don't know?

884

And they're going to be like,

so just like I'm blanking on

885

the word, but, uh, discouraged.

886

Yes.

887

Thank you.

888

They're gonna be so discouraged.

889

And, but then, like you said,

if I come at them and I'm like,

890

Oh, um, that's a great question.

891

I don't know, but.

892

But I know how to figure it out.

893

So let's go figure it out.

894

And,

895

Bill: know

896

Nick Smith: um,

897

Bill: or I know.

898

Yeah,

899

Nick Smith: right.

900

Bill: And,

901

and the other thing is.

902

One of the things I've noticed

further along I've gotten in my

903

training again, you'll take this.

904

amazing instructor who you kind of feel

like has so much experience that they

905

know everything and they'll, readily

admit, Oh yeah, I forgot what all the

906

words in that, um, you know, that, uh,

memory aid are, you know, it's one of

907

the ones from private or something.

908

Nick Smith: Yeah.

909

Yeah.

910

Bill: Oh yeah, was that, what

was the a standing for in that

911

mnemonic, you know, and, and,

912

Nick Smith: Yeah.

913

Like a tomato flames

or something like that.

914

Yeah.

915

Bill: and I'll go, Oh, thank

goodness, because I forget all

916

of these all the time, you know,

917

Nick Smith: Yeah.

918

Yeah.

919

Bill: kind of what it means and

where to find it and, and being

920

able to refresh your memory.

921

And I find that so much more

approachable and less discouraging.

922

And I think most.

923

Aspiring aviators or aspiring anything.

924

Uh, that's probably more approachable,

uh, less discouraging and it helps

925

you connect better and teach better.

926

So yeah, that's good.

927

that's funny that you bring that

up because that's a curve that

928

goes down as you know, more because

that's something I've run into

929

so much in my own experience, so

930

Nick Smith: Yeah.

931

And then like doing it on

online too, is a bit of a,

932

Bill: true.

933

Nick Smith: they say, like, if you want to

have the best, like, uh, like inner work,

934

just try to become an online entrepreneur

because you get all these like faceless

935

people commenting on your stuff and saying

whatever, like YouTube is the worst.

936

And like, uh, some of my first

YouTube videos were, you know,

937

pretty low, low, uh, production

quality and things like that.

938

And I made mistakes and just, just hearing

it from the, uh, You know, anonymous crowd

939

is, yeah, is, uh, you, you get a thick

skin and you realize that, you know, it's,

940

it's better to not act like, you know,

everything and just, just, just, you know,

941

be open.

942

Bill: it's

943

Nick Smith: Yeah, exactly.

944

Bill: I totally agree.

945

It's one of the things I hear about

from my listeners on the podcast all

946

the time that they appreciate me?

947

like airing my mistakes

948

Nick Smith: Yeah.

949

Bill: It's real easy and tempting To go.

950

Wow, what a bonehead what a bonehead

move that was Maybe I don't put

951

that out there in the ether for

everybody to laugh at me but

952

it really is better for people.

953

Again, I keep saying this word

connect, but I think that as you

954

alluded to earlier, um, is really,

really important, especially when

955

you're doing something online, because

there's not a natural community there.

956

It really does help build that trust

and community because again, they

957

go, Oh, I make tons of mistakes.

958

I'm not alone.

959

Bill made tons of mistakes

and I did, and I still do.

960

I still make tons of mistakes.

961

Nick Smith: Yeah.

962

Bill: so,

963

I, I just think it's, it's more fun.

964

It's more human.

965

It's more real.

966

It helps you connect.

967

And I think it helps people learn and

Most importantly, I think it helps

968

people not get discouraged and quit

969

there are times there have been

times in the last two years

970

where I wanted to just go.

971

You know what?

972

There's other things I could do.

973

I love flying.

974

This is too

975

Nick Smith: It can be very discouraging.

976

Bill: And I am

977

I really ever going to get good at this?

978

Or am I really ever going to get this?

979

Or am I ever really

going to remember this?

980

Or whatever it may be, can

be really discouraging.

981

And.

982

The thing I like to people know

is that that is the experience

983

for basically everyone.

984

And if we all make sure that everyone

knows that, it's much, it's much

985

easier to go, well, it happened to

this person I really looked up to, this

986

instructor I had who I really admire.

987

It happened to them.

988

I can get through this too.

989

Nick Smith: Yep.

990

Yeah.

991

One of my best performing YouTube

videos is where I just talk about my

992

story about how I paid way too much

993

for, you know,

994

Bill: ups,

995

Nick Smith: for my, all my screw ups.

996

Yep.

997

And it's the best performing one

because people are like all the time.

998

They're just like, Oh

my God, I can't believe

999

Bill: Yeah.

Nick Smith: this.

makes me feel so much better.

And it's like, yeah, yeah.

So.

Bill: yeah,

Nick Smith: that's the

big drive of your podcast.

That's the big draw.

I think of your podcast.

I remember after the first episode

telling, you know, my students to

go and listen to it because exactly

what you said and the feedback that

you get is you're just real and you,

you go through the journey, your own

journey, and then people can learn,

but they can also just kind of relate.

And just make

not get discouraged.

Bill: in the podcast, um, i'm i'm

near the beginning of my instrument

training You know, those are the

episodes i'm releasing by the

Nick Smith: Right.

Bill: Um remind me to talk to you about

beyond the checkride that i've been doing

you'll love this um, but uh, but yeah,

that's what i'm doing right now and I

look back on that so And I did this in

the early part of So what, what editing

and releasing these episodes is doing

is letting me relive that and going,

Oh man, that was a pretty hard rating.

Like it was a

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: to

learn.

And I was just coming back into

aviation after a multi year hiatus.

Um, many of the terms and concepts

I didn't know at all, you know, I

Nick Smith: Yeah,

Bill: approaches I knew of

departures, but I really didn't

know any details about them.

And it, it, it's been interesting

to be able to go back a

year and a half and go, wow.

sucked, but, um, but I still do because

I don't fly instrument very often.

And once you go to your commercial,

it's basically like a private

pilot check, right on steroids.

When you do that one, right there, you're

Nick Smith: yeah.

Mm-hmm

Bill: that.

And so I've been staying current.

And so, you know, with

my instrument, and so.

It's pretty funny because without

doing it all the time, it is

a very, very disposable skill.

Like it goes away really, really quick.

Um, and you, it's so easy to get

behind the airplane, um, flying

instrument.

you're not doing it all the

time, like seriously difficult.

And so I'll go up with my

son who's a private pilot.

He'll be my safety pilot.

And I'll go, Hey, I gotta, I want

to knock out three approaches.

I want to and get current

and I'll get done with that.

And not only am I exhausted, but I

flew like the worst approaches you

can imagine trying to get down to

minimums and trying to correct and

not get it, you know, whatever it is.

And I'll come back just completely

emotionally beat up because,

um, because I was so bad at it.

It was so hard for me to stay ahead and,

and do everything that I'm supposed to be

doing just on a simulated IFR approach.

You know what I mean?

Nick Smith: Yeah.

So is that what you would say was the

hardest part, just staying ahead with all

that you kind of have to track and do.

Bill: I don't think

that's the hardest part.

I think the hardest part was collecting

and retaining all of this new

information and then being able to,

and that's what made it hard to stay

ahead of the airplane is now all of a

sudden there's a whole lot more to do.

And I wasn't doing this with an autopilot.

you're talking hand flying.

instrument approaches when you're kind

of new to all of this briefing the plate

because you're doing this single pilot

even though you're sitting with a either a

safety pilot an instructor or an examiner

you're doing this single pilot they're

not helping you do it you know what I mean

Nick Smith: Yeah,

Bill: so you're acting

like you're single pilot

I mean single pilot if you're an actual

IMC pilot approaches without without

an autopilot that's no joke man I mean,

that's not something it would take

me a long time to feel comfortable

doing that, um, in, in real IMC.

Now, where I fly, we

don't get a lot of IMC.

I'd have to come out to San

Diego in the spring and summer

to get IMC down to minimums.

You know, we just don't

Nick Smith: yeah.

Bill: If we've got IMC conditions down

to minimums, you shouldn't be flying.

Cause you're probably in the middle

of a thunderstorm or microburst,

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: or, or a Habub, right?

But.

Nick Smith: Yeah.

That's true.

Bill: So, so it's not like

I'm probably going to be doing

that and, but I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't do it.

It's it takes way too much practice

and experience, in my opinion,

to do single pilot IMC, um, to

without having done it a lot in the

Nick Smith: Mm-hmm

Bill: or two.

You know what I

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: Even if I did it a lot for a year,

because maybe I got a job somewhere where

I was doing it like every day, and then

I came back here and went for a year

without doing that, I wouldn't do it.

It's, it's way too, too much load.

So

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: doing it a safety pilot

or an examiner or an instructor

where you're simulating single

pilot, it's just as hard.

It's just not as dangerous.

Right?

Nick Smith: Right.

Bill: is

the time to do it, but the reason

I wouldn't do it is I think

it's too much unless you're

doing it all the time because

Nick Smith: 100%.

Bill: have to be an

autopilot in and of yourself.

You can't be thinking about what's next.

What next has to come naturally.

So that's what I found.

The hardest part is all

of this new knowledge.

The, the test, the written test for

that, you know, you're teaching it.

The written test for that is

not, not easy, uh, because

Nick Smith: Mm-hmm

Bill: whole

bunch of new concepts and new ways to

think about stuff that really has nothing

to do with the private pilot exam that

you just finished, you know, generally,

Nick Smith: Yeah.

So I,

Bill: go ahead.

Nick Smith: uh, fi uh,

do you wanna finish?

Bill: Oh, I was just going to say,

um, but then adding to the, all that

new knowledge, having to fly quote

unquote, single pilot, IFR down

to minimums with a whole bunch of

different approaches all in one day.

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: Um,

it's, exhausting and it's not

Nick Smith: Mm-hmm

Bill: physically.

It's exhausting mentally and emotionally

because you you're behind the airplane or

almost behind the, behind the airplane.

Nick Smith: Right?

You're always just trying to keep up.

Bill: And as soon

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: missed, you're like, you

know, the examiner, if it's a check

ride, the examiner says, all right,

well, let's set up for, and you're

like, I barely got through that.

now I got to twist turn to, I got to

do all of the stuff now to set up for

this next one do all of this again

with a different type of approach.

It's, it's a lot, it's a lot, it

Nick Smith: It is.

Did I, I was curious to ask, like,

'cause I heard this during my private

that like, you know, when people talked

about IFR, like whether or not you

should get it or how, I feel like there's

this almost like, uh, belief that like.

Because IFR is a little bit less

hours and stuff in terms of, of the

training that like, it's, it's easier.

Or I remember thinking that, that

it's like, it's a lot of being told

that, Oh yeah, it's a lot easier.

You'll get it done real quick.

I guess.

Fine.

Like,

and then when I,

Bill: It can be quicker.

Nick Smith: right.

Yeah, exactly.

But like to say that, but I feel like

a lot of students kind of think like,

Oh, the ground is just going to be.

You know, easy peasy.

Like I'm just going to be relearned.

Bill: I mean,

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Bill: I guess some of the weather

stuff is just building on what

you did in the private, but it is

Nick Smith: Right.

Bill: I mean, you, now you're

going to be diving into icing.

You're going to be,

Nick Smith: It's all

about the details in IFR.

Bill: Yep.

Nick Smith: Yeah.

Yeah.

Bill: Mm

Nick Smith: um, and because, and it

makes sense because if you aren't

detailed and you're not on, you know,

you're not flying the right speed,

you're not, you don't have the right

turn rate, you know, and, and you're

flying IMC like, yeah, yeah, you have

to, you have to be on the details.

And so,

Bill: it makes you

Nick Smith: yeah.

Yeah.

Bill: a better pilot and part of it.

Honestly, part of it is you

realize, like we were talking about

before, how little, you know, and

how little experience you have.

Nick Smith: Yeah,

Bill: one of the things that you do as

part of the instrument training is, um,

not everybody does it, but I think it's

an important thing for an instructor to

do is, hey, you know, close your eyes.

And follow my instructions, you know,

Nick Smith: yeah,

yeah.

Bill: do this now, just make a nice

level turn to the left, make it,